Wednesday, August 30, 2023

The least you could do

It's not uncommon to hear preachers say something like, "Christ died for you, the least you could do is to live for Him." It's worth noting that the epistles make no such claim. In fact, they seem to say the opposite. Consider 2 Corinthians 4:7–12 as an example, or Galatians 2:20.   "[I]t is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me" (Galatians 2:20, LSB). It's worth spending some time meditating on this.

Deuteronomy 29:4 makes the startling statement that God had not given Israel eyes, ears, and a heart to perceive what He was doing for them in the wilderness. What they needed was not more evidence of God's goodness to them (Deuteronomy 29:2–6), but Divine intervention and transformation so that they would understand what they had seen.

This theme is developed more fully in the prophets (Jeremiah17:9; Ezekiel 36:25–27), in the gospels (John 3:3ff; John 15:4ff), and in the epistles (Romans 7:4–6; Romans 8:1–8; Galatians 6:15). The testimony of the whole of Scripture, from the Pentatuech through the epistles, is that man cannot please God without a fundamental transformation that he is unable to achieve himself. It is only God's intervention that can make man capable of pleasing God.

Romans 5:12ff centers on this simple truth: man is not simply guilty, he is lost. Our problem is not merely that we are guilty before God (the focus of Romans 1–3), but that we are by nature opposed to Him. The problem is not only that we have sinned, but that we are sinners. And it might surprise us to realize we were sinners before we ever sinned (Romans 5:19). We are like the scorpion that stung the frog, "because that's what scorpions do." We sin because we are sinners, not the other way around.

At the root of the exhortation, "Christ died for you, the least you can do is live for Him," is the hidden assumption that we are not lost, merely guilty. Our guilt means we need forgiveness and atonement, but once that has been accomplished, we are capable of trying again – and getting it right this time! We have a clean slate. It rests on a denial that fallen man is truly lost.

The clean slate approach has already been tried and been found wanting. Exodus 31 – 34 detail the initial giving of the Law at Sinai, the failure of Israel to keep it, God's grace in sparing the bulk of the nation, and then His giving the Law again. 2 Corinthians 3:7–16 alludes to Exodus 34, especially Exodus 34:29ff. The verdict is that the Law, delivered for the second time, is the "ministry of death" and the "ministry of condemnation."

For many years, I took "the ministry of death" in 2 Corinthians 3:7–10 to refer to the giving of the Law in Exodus 32:19ff. But we know for certain that's not correct: the veiling of Moses wasn't a feature of Exodus 32, but of Exodus 34. So what 2 Corinthians 3 calls "the ministry of death" (2 Corinthians 3:7) and "the ministry of condemnation" (2 Corinthians 3:9) is explicitly not the first giving of the Law, but the second: it's law after forgiveness.

I've quoted this passage by JND before, but it's worth quoting again:

[T]he people, though spared by grace, were put back under law; and this was the ministration of death and condemnation of which the apostle speaks. For, in fact, if atonement be not made, grace only makes transgression worse, at any rate in the revelation of God; even in partial glory, with law it must be condemnation to a sinner. Law after grace, in a word, is what the apostle teaches us is condemnation; law after atonement is worse than absurd. It is putting away the sin, and then putting under it, or making the law of no authority and no effect. But vague grace - sparing, and then law, is the state of multitudes of souls; and that is what the apostle tells us is death and condemnation in its nature, and indeed the veil is soon over the reflection of grace to the soul (that is, the perception that exists of grace is soon lost).
– J. N. Darby, "Show me now thy way", Collected Writings, Volume 19, p. 181


Notice how the exhortation, "Christ has died for you, the least you can do is live for Him" parallels the giving of the Law in Exodus 34. Putting responsibility for obedience on those who have been forgiven – because they have been forgiven – is not the Gospel. It's the "ministry of death."  This is what Luther might call "mixing Law and Gospel."

We might note, too, that obedience predicated on completed redemption isn't Gospel at all: it's pure Law. Consider Exodus 20:1–2. The Mosaic Law was predicated on a completed redemption from slavery in Egypt. God wasn't promising them He would deliver them from Egypt if only they would obey: He reminded them that He had already delivered them from slavery in Egypt, and thus He had a right to demand obedience. This is identical in principle to what is so commonly taught as "gospel" today.

The principle of grace – grace as opposed to law – is that God gives freely, demanding nothing in return. This is not the principle of Exodus 34, which put forgiven men and women back under law. This is something entirely different.

And so we ask the same question Paul asks in Romans 6:1, "so shall we just continue in sin then?" And like every question in Romans, this one tests whether we've been paying attention. If the Gospel taught in Romans 1–5 demands obedience, then that question would never be there. The question is there, because if we truly hear the Gospel taught in Romans 1–5, we'll be wondering whether we should just continue in sin. If more sin means more grace (cf. Romans 5:20–21), then doesn't that mean we can increase grace by continuing in sin?  If we don't see the question in Romans 6:1 as the logical one to ask, then we've been adding something to the Gospel of Romans 1–5. 

W. H. Griffith Thomas points out:

Before considering the Apostle's treatment of this question it is essential to observe that the very fact of such a question being possible shows with unmistakable clearness the true meaning of the Apostle's Doctrine of Justification (St. Paul's Epistle to the Romans, p. 165)

 

And don't let's misquote Romans 6:1. It doesn't say, "can we continue in sin?" the answer to that is a resounding "Yes!" Praise God, if we continue in sin, then grace will abound. That's not the question.

The question is, "shall we continue in sin?"  That's a different question, and it has a different answer.

No one who says, "Christ has died for you, the least you can do is live for Him" will ever be asked, "shall we continue in sin?" That person is on entirely different ground than Paul was. That question is the logical follow-up to Paul's Gospel. If no one's asking us that question, then we're preaching a different Gospel than Paul was. (Alan Gamble pointed this out brilliantly in a sermon I can no longer find online.)

And what's Paul's response to that question? Does he say, "may it never be! Christ has died for you, the least you can do is live for Him!" No, he does not. He responds, "may it never be! How shall we, who are dead to sin, live any longer in it?" (Romans 6:2). It's not that we should cease sinning out of gratitude. It's that we should cease sinning because we have died to sin.

God's remedy for guilt is that Christ died for us. Dying in our place, He paid the penalty we owed.

God's remedy for our lost-ness – for our entire inability to please God – is that we have died with Christ.

Notice how Romans 6:1–6 makes a mockery of the notion that "the least you could do is live for Him." God doesn't want our life! We were so lost that His remedy is to put us to death. Our life – the life that we inherited from Adam – was a life incapable of pleasing God (Romans 8:1–8, especially vv. 7–8). In and of ourselves, we cannot please God

 

I cannot stress enough that obedience based on gratitude for accomplished redemption isn't Gospel, but Law. It is exactly the opening statement of Exodus 20. We are no more capable of keeping the Law after forgiveness than before it. Our problem isn't that we lack gratitude (although we do), but that we lack power. This is what Romans 6–8 addresses.


The scriptural remedy for our lost-ness involves three things. First, we are freely justified from all guilt through faith in Christ (Acts 13:39, Romans 4:1–8). God wants nothing from us to make amends for our guilt: we are utterly helpless in the face of the crushing debt we owe, and any attempts to make payment for it mock God's righteousness. God forgives us because – and only because – Christ has died for us. There is no other remedy for our guilt before God. "[T]he one who does not work, but believes upon Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness" (Romans 4:5, LSB). There is no other remedy that God acknowledges.

Second, we are delivered from the power of sin over us by our death with Christ. This is Romans 6:1–14, it's God's answer to the question, "so should we just continue in sin?" The answer is that God has already intervened for us, in the death of Christ, so that we are invited to see ourselves as God sees us. As far as God is concerned, when Christ died, I died. When Christ was buried, I was buried. When Christ rose again, I rose again. When Christ ascended, I ascended. I am a man "in Christ," and my life is tied up with His. Darby points out that Romans only addresses the first two: in Romans we have died with Christ and been buried with Him, but we haven't yet been raised with Him (cf. Romans 6:5). In Colossians, we have died with Him, been buried with Him, and been raised with Him (Colossians 3:1–4). But in Colossians, we still haven't ascended with Him. In Ephesians, though, we have gone all the way with Him, and are seated in the heavenlies with Him (Ephesians 2:4–6).

There is human responsibility in Romans 6. The first command in the book of Romans is in Romans 6:11, "consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus" (LSB). So there is something we need to do: we need to consider ourselves to be dead to sin. This isn't some sort of psychological technique, it's not wish fulfillment or "manifesting" or whatever other pop psychology pseudo-spiritual nonsense you might hear about. This is accepting by faith that God sees us as having died with Christ, and accepting His invitation to see ourselves the same way. This is our acquiescence to God's statement that we died with Christ. This is us saying, "whatever my opinion may be, God's opinion is the one that counts."

Third, we are empowered by the Spirit of God to "walk in the Spirit" (Galatians 5:16ff, Romans 8:1–17). Notice the parallels between Paul's ministry in Galatians and Romans, and John's in John 15:1–11. The language is different, the descriptions are the same. What John calls "abiding in Christ" is what Paul calls "walking in the Spirit." 

Now, it's important to note that conflict isn't over yet. In fact, conflict hasn't really started. When the children of Israel left Egypt, they were delivered from Pharaoh's army at the Red Sea without any fight at all: it was entirely God's fight, and they were simply told to "stand still" and watch (Exodus 14:13–14). In fact, Scripture only says they were "saved" when they had seen the dead bodies of the Egyptians on the shore (Exodus 14:30–31). In a similar way, we are invited to look at ourselves dead with Christ (Romans 6:5–11). But once they had gotten through the Red Sea, they had to engage in conflict with the Amalekites (Exodus 17:8ff).

As an aside, one of the worst things so many preachers do today is invite us to conflict with the Egyptians. We aren't called to put sin to death, but to consider ourselves to have died to it (Romans 6:5–11). The Israelites weren't told to fight with Pharaoh, but to watch his destruction. They were called to fight with Amalek. In exactly the same way, there is conflict for us too, but we don't get to that conflict until we have learned to "stand still and see the salvation of the Lord."

 

Scripture doesn't teach, "live this way out of gratitude," but "live what you are in Christ." We are called into a new creation: we are new creatures in Christ Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:17), that is our motivation. Just like we used to sin because we were sinners, now we should live righteously because we are in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 4:1ff, Romans 12:1ff).

But notice this isn't something that God calls lost men and women to do! This is something we are called to do only after we have seen ourselves as dead and buried with Christ. We can't skip Romans 6 on the way to Romans 12. We can't skip Ephesians 2 on the way to Ephesians 4. It just doesn't work that way. It's worse than foolishness.


So with all that said (and it was a lot), here are just some of the problems with "Christ has died for you, the least you can do is live for Him."

First, it assumes that God wants my life. He does not, what He wants is the "life of Jesus" in our mortal bodies (2 Corinthians 4:7–12). What good is the life of a fallen man or woman to God? What value is a lost sinner to Him? Forgiven or not, the life of a lost sinner is of no spiritual value at all. It's the life of one who has died with Christ, has been buried with Him, has been raised with Him, and is looking for Christ to come back for him – that's the life that pleases God. It's not until we can say, "Christ, who is our life" (Colossians 3:4) that we have a life God can use.


Second, it supposes an independent life. The Lord Jesus said, "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5). The entire discussion in John 15:1–11 centers on the self-evident fact that a branch on its own is useless. We don't produce fruit for God on our own: we produce fruit for God as the True Vine bears fruit through us. Forgiven, but lost, men and women are no more capable of pleasing God than unforgiven men and women. As new creations in Christ Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:17), we are capable of pleasing God, but...

The single hardest thing for us to learn is that the rules are different in the New Creation. In New Creation, life is from God Himself, we don't have it on our own (cf. John 6:26ff). Adam had some measure of life independent from God. The life of the New Creation in Christ isn't like that (1 John 5:11–14). No, the life of the New Creation is life that is hidden in Christ. We don't look to live autonomously. This isn't a life where we can go off and work hard to produce something and bring it back to God, as Cain did. It's a life where every breath, every step, every action has to be taken as an outflow of the life of God Himself in Christ Jesus.

 

Third, it assumes we can achieve righteousness. This is probably the most lingering aspect of carnal religion. Just like cockroaches seem to survive no matter what we try to do to rid ourselves of them, we cling to the carnal concept of producing righteousness for God until the bitter end. We need to stamp that out: we need to beat it mercilessly until it lies lifeless at our feet, and then we need to beat it some more.

The righteousness men and women can produce are of no value to God (Job 22:3, Isaiah 64:6).

A man in Christ Jesus has no righteousness of his own. This the plain statement of Philippians 3:8–11. Righteousness of our own is necessarily on the principle of law (Philippians 3:9), and that's a principle that can only condemn us (Romans 4:15). Law cannot produce righteousness, but that's all we have when we try to have righteousness of our own.

In God's view, we are men and women in Christ Jesus. But to come into the practical good of that, we need to embrace Philippians 3:8–11. If we are in Christ Jesus, we have no righteousness of our own. We are no more capable of producing righteousness now than we were then. We must give this up!

It's hard to imagine a more stark contrast than the one between "Christ died for me, the least I can do is to live for Him" and "that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own which is from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God upon faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead."


I'm sure there are many other issues that could be mentioned. I'm sure the comments will fill with other excellent points. But to me, these three are the reasons I reject the notion that, "Christ died for you, the least you can do is live for Him."

 

 

 

 





 


 










 

 



21 comments:

Robert said...

Mark – thank you. This is masterly. I particularly appreciate it because we have been studying the journey from Egypt to Cannan for many months. The distinction between Exodus 32 and 34 is very helpful and worth much consideration.
“At the root of the exhortation, "Christ died for you, the least you can do is live for Him," is the hidden assumption that we are not lost, merely guilty. Our guilt means we need forgiveness and atonement, but once that has been accomplished, we are capable of trying again – and getting it right this time! We have a clean slate. It rests on a denial that fallen man is truly lost.”
The prodigal’s highest ambition for living in the father’s house was, ‘make me as one of they hired servants’. He was not allowed by his father to give his rehearsed speech and instead he was welcomed with the words, this my son was dead and is alive again’.
The ‘least you can do is live for Him ‘ teaching is often targeted to young believers, who then spend much of their life asking God to make them something in His service. Imagine the difference it would make to the Christian testimony if every young believer was made aware in the months after salvation of their position as sons, encouraged to enjoy their Father’s fellowship and feast on the fatted calf. Imagine if all who served God, served in the knowledge of sonship and the enjoyment of fellowship with the Father.
Which brings us to a second thought, which is the need for dependence on the Lord and the Spirit in all service. 1 Corinthians 12 surely makes it very clear that the Spirit distributes and controls the gifts that will edify the church. God will not use man’s natural abilities or will in His service. We hear men in the UK tell young people that there is no need for spiritual gift in the service of the Lord - ‘if you see something that needs doing and you want to do it, go ahead and the Lord bless you’. This is very dangerous and leads to frustration and failure, as well as arrogance and pride.
A third aspect I have noticed is the tendency to link the thought of revival with this teaching. Effectively, saints are being taught that a past generation did not achieve much for God but this new generation can move the testimony forward. All that is lacking is the will to do it and that will can be found by contemplating what Christ has done for us. Surely we owe it to Him to put our backs into the testimony and push it forwards? This results in a proliferation of new schemes and activities carried out in the enthusiasm of the flesh, without any enquiry as to God’s mind.
The churches in Asia had their problems but the answers could be found by the man who was willing to turn his ear to hear what the Spirit saith in the churches. The Spirit was speaking but men were too busy with their plans for church life to listen! And that ultimately led to Laodicea – a church that was rich and had need of nothing, including Christ! The programme ran on without Him.
Another thought is around ‘mixing Law and Gospel’. How often do believers have the experience of listening to a preacher and deciding, ‘I really need to improve and live a better life. I need to address the issues the preacher has outlined and I will start first thing on Monday’. Only for us to discover within the first hour of Monday that the preacher did not explain to us how we could make the changes or where we would find the power to continue in our new way of life – other than to keep thinking about what Christ did for us and what we must do for Him. That’s why 2 Corinthians 3 is so important. The law was a ministration of condemnation, the gospel is an administration of righteousness. The law demanded righteousness from men. The gospel gives us the righteousness of God. But also, the law was a ministration of condemnation – no matter how much a man tried he always was condemned as a failure. The gospel is a ministration of the Spirit. The Spirit allows the righteous requirements of the law to be fulfilled in a believer.
I wrote much more but the blog restricts us to 4096 characters.

Susan said...

so thankful for you two!
Only able to glance (speed read) all of this as I have out of state family coming for a visit today.
Be back soon!
Where is Rodger and HWW?

Anonymous said...

PRACTICAL holiness is put before us in the Scriptures under the figure of fruit. But what is fruit? It is the deposit of the sap; it is the final result of all the inner activities of the tree-the outcome of the hidden life, which, beginning with the root, passes through the stem into the branch, and finally manifests itself in bud, blossom, and fruit. When the fruit is formed and ripened, the great purpose of the tree's activity and growth is reached; the life has completed its cycle.
https://positiontoperson.wordpress.com/2023/08/31/conformity-to-the-death-of-christ/

Anonymous said...

Were not contemplating some nebulous Christ in heaven we have his Spirit down here and his nature thats Christ in you. When we start off the day its following his specific intructions the more you set up the day by his promptings the more spiritual it will be. Its not sitting in a closet counting beads its a full on interactive experience but its only the experience he has set for you. its not readin the morning newspaper and coffee and going about your day. Its not a routine its going to be by faith. Thats how we experience His crucifixion and life here below.

Anonymous said...

Its bringing you to a place over and over again of your inability in yourself and acknowledging your crucifixion with Christ. Its the Lord leading you through situations where you fail and learn youre failure as person and a christian it can only be by God because at the end of the day our best is only just our best its has to be his best. This becomes painful and morbid.

Anonymous said...

6. The discovery by the creature that he is truly the object of Divine grace makes
the creature very humble. He knows his unworthiness, yet finds himself blessed
time and again.

6. To rely on God’s chastening hand as a mark of His kindness.

6. Real devotion to God arises, not from man’s will to show it, but from the
discovery that blessing has been received from God while we were yet unworthy
and undevoted.

http://www.heartwisdomstudies.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AFewWordsAboutGrace.pdf

Anonymous said...

As a christian we learn by experiences there are no wrong experiences even though they seems painful and confusing it's the only way we learn it creates dependence on God if we didn't fail or have troubles we wouldn't need him and only he creates the need. We we restrict ourselves in normal habits it becomes a will game and you inadvertently quench the Spirit thinking it's the wiring path when the Lord is only trying to lead you into experiences for your training. It's biggest reason we don't use law today it's by. The spirit only he can sanction things and apply the bible to your exact experience. Same goes with washing after defiling experiences only he knows which verses and Bibles to use to get the job done.

Robert said...

Anonymous said: ‘ we’re not contemplating a nebulous Christ in heaven, we have His Spirit down here’.

I think sometimes in our comments we present one side of truth to each other when a number of things are true at the same time. The Spirit shall be with you and in you is true but of that same Spirit, the Lord said, ‘He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you’. John 16:14

The Spirit’s work is to direct us to Christ in glory. ‘But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord’ 2 Cor 3:18

The Spirit make real to us the present life and ministry of Christ as our great high priest, the advocate with the Father, the head of the body, walking in the midst of the golden lampstands etc.

Anonymous said...

I was guarding against catholic mysticism hence the bead counting

Susan said...

Mark and Robert - Outstanding! Robert you are exactly right here: "Another thought is around ‘mixing Law and Gospel’. How often do believers have the experience of listening to a preacher and deciding, ‘I really need to improve and live a better life."
Mark - I mentioned I had problems with Watchman Nee, but not everything. This is really good:
Notice first that in the picture by which, in Romans 7:1-4, Paul illustrates our deliverance from the Law, there is only one woman, while there are two husbands. The woman is in a very difficult position, for she can only be wife of one of the two, and unfortunately she is married to the less desirable one. Let us make no mistake, the man to whom she is married is a good man; but the trouble lies here, that the husband and wife are totally unsuited to one another. He is a most particular man, accurate to a degree; she on the other hand is decidedly easy-going. With him all is definite and precise; with her all is casual and haphazard. He wants everything just so, while she takes things as they come. How could there be happiness in such a home?

And then that husband is so exacting! He is always making demands upon her. And yet one cannot find fault with him, for as a husband he has a right to expect something of his wife; and besides, all his demands are perfectly legitimate. There is nothing wrong with the man and nothing wrong with his demands; the trouble is that he has the wrong kind of wife to carry them out. The two cannot get on at all; theirs are utterly incompatible natures. Thus the poor woman is in great distress. She is fully aware that she often makes mistakes, but living with such a husband it seems as though EVERYTHING she says and does is wrong! What hope is there for her? If only she were married to that other Man all would be well. He is no less exacting than her husband, but He also helps much. She would fain marry Him, but her husband is still alive. What can she do? She is "bound by law to the husband" and unless he dies she cannot legitimately marry that other Man.

The first husband is the Law; the second husband is Christ; and you are the woman. The law requires much, but offers no help in the carrying out of its requirements. The Lord Jesus requires just as much, yea more, but what He requires from us He Himself carries out in us. The law makes demands and leaves us helpless to fulfill them; Christ makes demands, but He Himself fulfills in us the very demands He makes. Little wonder that the woman desires to be freed from the first husband that she may marry that other Man! But her only hope of release is through the death of her first husband, and he holds on to life most tenaciously. Indeed there is not the least prospect of his passing away (see Matthew 5:18).

The law is going to continue for all eternity. If the Law will never pass away, then how can I ever be united to Christ? How can I marry a second husband if my first husband resolutely refuses to die? There is only one way out. If HE will not die, I can die, and if I die the marriage relationship is dissolved. And that is exactly God’s way of deliverance from the Law. The most important point to note in this section of Romans 7 is the transition from verse 3 to verse 4. Verses 1 to 3 show that the husband should die, but in verse 4 we see that in fact it is the woman who dies. The Law does not pass away, but I pass away, and by death I am freed from the Law. Watchman Nee, THE NORMAL CHRISTIAN LIFE

Anonymous said...

Theres a supreme difference when working with the Holy Spirits power. One way is lethargic and groggy the other is lightening quick response and understanding. On top of thinking your way best you also fall into old habits and it just steamrolls. Your nature will back up whatever youre about and reach out and pile on whatever direction youre headed. Youre either working on the spirits direction or the nature and the Lord will tell you pretty clearly over and over again that youre off his line. And he'll use as many different illustrations and types in daily life as it takes to get you back on line until you cave. And it doesnt just affect you it affects everyone around you. No one wants to hear you theyre attracted by the Spirit of God in you.

Anonymous said...

We have perhaps thought of the Cross-death union with the Lord Jesus in the hard light of having to let go, having to give up, and having to die-being crucified, with all the pain of it. But, beloved, it is to translate us out of the kingdom of darkness into that of the Son of His love-to deliver us from the power of Satan and from his deception. Now unless our soul life is met in the power of the Cross and subjected to God...and we know what it is to live in the Spirit and walk after the Spirit...we are exposed to deception. You will find that, where a counterfeit Holy Spirit works, there is a tremendous amount of soul excitability, soul emotion, lack of soul control...and, sometimes, indecency. And yet, there are supernatural things. Yes, but that is not the Holy Spirit. There has been a reaching out of soul in an intensified quest for some kind of an experience a supernatural experience. That reaching out has opened the being to the other realm, and you can get anything. You can get guidance, you can get miracles- anything along that line; but beware! The counterfeit has its ground of success in the very nature of us, and that nature must be broken.

If the Lord is going to save His children from delusion and deception in these days, He has got to bring them back to the bedrock truth of identification with Christ in death, burial, and resurrection...and to what that means as to the passing of one kind of man and the coming in of another kind of man.

In this matter, as amongst many others, Christ crucified is the power of God and the wisdom of God.

https://positiontoperson.wordpress.com/2023/09/03/coronation-198-sept-1-2/

Susan said...

Anonymous (aka NicW) My advice to you is to get off these websites:
watch-unto-prayer.org
and
positiontoperson.wordpress.com
They add good articles from time to time only to deceive and misinterpret
with their conspiracy nonsense...


Anonymous said...

Maybe you shouldn't post about not keeping the law and then turn around and tell someone what to do.

Anonymous said...

I'm afraid you don't know what the principle of law is doesn't matter how you state.

clumsy ox said...

Let's not turn this into a back-and-forth.

Susan was giving advice, that's how it sounded to me when I read it, that's all she meant by it.

-mark

clumsy ox said...

@Anonymous, keep the personal attacks to yourself. They don't belong here, and I'll keep deleting them.

Anonymous said...

The by-works principle of the law is not limited to the fleshly effort to do the particular things found in the law of Moses, and the law of the kingdom. It is the fleshly effort to do anything by which one seeks to become acceptable to God. Therefore, when the teachings of grace are attempted with a view to being accepted of God, they become purely legal in their character. In like manner, when the elements which are contained in the law and restated under grace are attempted in the power of the Spirit and on the basis that acceptance with God is already gained through Christ, these precepts become purely gracious in their character. This principle may be extended to the larger sphere of any and all self- imposed law, regardless of Bible injunctions. In which case it will be seen that the doing of any good works with a view to being accepted of God, is purely legal in character; contrawise, the doing of any good works because one believes himself to be accepted through Christ, is purely gracious in character. The legalist may thus enter the field of the teachings of grace and suppose himself to be subject to the whole Bible, when, in reality, he has no conception of the blessings and relationships in grace.

Lsc Grace The Life under Grace p191

Anonymous said...

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Anonymous said...

http://www.gracebiblestudies.org/Message.aspx?MessageID=99

Anonymous said...

We get into happy conditins of the soul founded on the work Christ has done: exercise (not legal) of soul with God begin, as going within the veil.
Jnd vol 28 p189